Described as having a “Baroque Pop” sound, San Fermin are a band fueled by orchestral chemistry, approaching classical instruments with a modern-day edge. With the release of their sophomore album, Jackrabbit, we see a band that takes pride in their music. Alongside their SXSW shenanigans, this band are destined to have many opportunities coming their way… We speak to Ellis Ludwig-Leone who’s behind the music composition, about how the band took shape, his inspirations and what he hopes to achieve in the near future. Perhaps one day we will see his band collaborate with one of the greatest hip-hop artists known to mankind.
So before the establishment of San Fermin, you worked closely with composer, Nico Muhly. What did you gain from that experience?
Nico – he’s a whirlwind. I started working for him when I was in college and I worked for him basically for a year and a half after I graduated and it was amazing to see him work because he was so versatile. One day, he would be working on a opera and the next day, he’d be working on a pop song or arrangement. In college you sorta get this feeling that it takes a long time to do anything or you need to work slow but no, he works quickly and well and he’s great to collaborate with and it was pretty amazing to see that happen.
So when it comes to working on musical avenues as a composer, what challenges you the most in terms of creativity and sound dynamics?
I guess in terms of creativity, there’s always a question of “Is this the thing I wanna say?” It’s easy to sort of overthink it when you firstly have an audience who will actually listen to your music. I think it’s easy to sort of second guess what it is that you’re trying to say at that moment in time and the key for me has been to basically try to be as honest as possible to my emotional state while also removing myself a little bit from how I actually write songs. Because I don’t sing, I’m able to write for singers who aren’t me so people kind of get the difference there.
I guess it’s pretty cool because you studied at Yale University. Do you think you’re applying what you learnt there at this present moment with San Fermin and your other musical projects?
Yeah definitely. I don’t think it matters exactly where I was going to school so much but I think what’s really been interesting is that I was studying how to write instrumental music and I mean now, I have a band where there’s singers but really – it’s all connected. Music is music. It’s notes overtime and you just need to know how to construct something that stands up to multiple listens. I think that I have definitely drawn a lot of my understanding on concert music and classical music and use that knowledge when I’m doing something else, like working on a pop song.
So San Fermin are quite a large band. How do the touring logistics work when you’re on the road?
[chuckles] The good news is, I have eight band members, so the good part is that you never get sick of people. Someone’s always doing something, there’s always someone to talk to and they’re such great people that I’ve grown really close to. On the other hand, it’s expensive to fly, it’s expensive to travel nicely, it’s expensive to stay in nice hotels. What we gain in comradery is what we use when it comes to basic human comforts [chuckles]. But I think we’re all at a point now where we’re starting to get both of those things and that’s been really cool.
So you guys did SXSW recently. How was that experience overall?
It’s great and as it’s been my second time doing it, I have to say that SXSW is a singular event – it’s not like any other festival I’ve played. It’s basically total madness for a week and you sort of wake up at the end of it but it’s really cool because you get to see a lot of other bands and you know, there’s a certain scrappiness to it but I think that we’ve found it challenging otherwise.
How did you find the overall process for Jackrabbit?
I went away to New Hampshire for a while and wrote about half the record and then I went on tour with the band for a while. When I came back, I realised that a lot of stuff that I had been writing – I felt kind of differently about. I think it’s a very transitionary record for us because by the time I was finishing all of these songs, we had written a lot of stuff that ripped up in big holes of certain songs and added weird, dark interludes and I think it was a sort of a violent yet satisfying process.
Did you feel like you stepped outside your comfort zone in sound progression with this record?
Yeah, I think it started to develop into a sound that feels unique which is one of my big goals for this record. I think one of the things people heard on the last record was that we sounded young. There was a lot of references to other bands and I think that’s definitely true. On this record, I was really trying to find what it was that I wanted to say musically and I think that was possible in part because I had played these songs so many times and basically been on stage so much with the band members. I think I found that identity through my personal connections with the players themselves.
I was listening to your debut album and comparing it to Jackrabbit, I found that it was more dynamic in terms of the beats and rhythm. I felt like you experimented more in terms of that.
Yeah definitely. It’s more of a rhythmic record and a quickly changing record. I think I wanted it to reflect the uptake in the pace of my life.
Being a band that has taken a unique flair in pop music, have you ever considered being involved in theatrics?
Yes and no. I don’t love being in plots. I’ve never, never liked them when music is involved. I think it’s really hard to make a good musical. I’ve seen a few but generally I think it’s quite difficult. I would much rather write an orchestral piece or oral piece or something that has a big, big piece of music that isn’t necessarily acted on stage. I think theatrical is something that I would like to naturally avoid – but who knows, when the right things come up, maybe I’ll get involved with it.
So in terms of the dynamics of the band, how would you describe the live performance of San Fermin on stage?
One thing I’ve realised is that I think is that our music is a little bit uncategorisable on the record – it’s pretty crazy; it goes from one thing to the next pretty quickly. But on stage, to me it feels like a rock band. I mean the instrumentation is slightly different but the energy is the same so really the live shows are much more of an electrified version of what you could hear from the record.
Do you think using traditional instruments brought a sense of cohesiveness in the band’s musicianship?
Well, I was drawing on people who really know how to play. I went to school with our brass players and violinist – they’re all very accomplished players in their own way. It’s a pretty high-level of performance in the band and I was thinking on the fact that people, if they’re good musicians, the show will be good and I think that’s the part I did well on.
So what would you say your biggest inspirations would be behind the sound of San Fermin?
Well, I think one of the records that made me wanna make a record at all was Sufjan Steven’s Illinoisrecord. It really is one of my favourites and it was something that works from song to song but also works as an entire piece, which is something really big and kind of profound, so that was probably one of the big inspirations for me growing up. The Graceland album by Paul Simon was also something that stuck with me through the years so those were really the two that were the initial inspirations.
Before San Fermin, what other musical projects did you endeavour on and how did they shape you as a composer?
I was part of a classical group when I was in university, it was basically a chamber ensemble and we used to perform a lot and that was definitely an experience that shaped my understanding a lot. It was the first time where I had a large group of musicians who would play the music that I wrote. I had a series of bands with Allen [Tate] on the side as well with more traditional rock bands, then when I got out of school, I had the idea of putting it all together.
Seeing as you’re a music composer, do you come from a family that had a huge music history or was it just a personal interest for you?
I would say that I come from a family of visual artists – basically every single person from my immediate family and all the other people from my extended family are all artists but no one is a musician so I was kind of an outlier in that way. I think there’s a lot of overlap.
I think it’s interesting because visual artists are creative in a visual sense but you’re creative in a music sense.
Yeah. I think it’s a matter of manifestation and it’s the same impulse. But I think I liked the one that was noisier [laughs].
So what have you learnt so far in your journey with San Fermin and what do you hope to achieve next?
You know, I’ve learnt a lot and it’s just been an encompassing thing. I would say that what I’ve learnt is that there’s lots of ways to make music and at the end of the day, you will basically have to be apt with music that makes you sort of moved emotionally. I think that has been sort of hard for me in the process of timing and being involved with the music world; you really have to do something that resonates with you personally because that’s what people are going to react to – the honesty. In terms of where I want the band to go, I think with a band as large as ours there is definitely a pressure for us to keep growing. I’d like to keep producing records, I’d like to keep playing shows, I’d like to visit Australia – there’s things on the bucket list that I’d love to still do and I’m definitely not ready to pack it in yet.
So what do you have planned for the rest of the year?
Basically in this moment in-between records, I’ve been writing a lot of other music so I have a couple of ballets in the horizon, one for New York City ballet and I have an orchestral piece in Alabama – just a bunch of stuff like that which has been really fun for me because I love writing music in any riff and in any form so whatever the opportunities. It’s all kind of a new challenge.
In terms of the vocalists, I just find it interesting that there’s a mixture between male and female vocalists. How did the process of that go on?
Really, when I started writing, the first record was for Allen and I kept wanting a response and then that’s where the female singers came in and it just grew from there. The biggest hit from our first record was from one of the songs where all the female singers sang so it really sort of cemented the equality of the two voices. Now, I think it’s really a great tool because you can say something and then say it’s opposite and you have the capacity to do that. Often I kinda feel like one way and the opposite at the same time so it’s nice to be able to sometimes show that literally in the music.
In terms of music, who would you like to collaborate with in the near future if you had the opportunity to?
There’s so many really great artists out there but it’s hard to say. I would love to work with Sufjan Stevens, that would be amazing, Paul Simon would be great too. It’d be cool to do something outside of my comfort zone – doing something with Kendrick Lamar would be pretty cool. I really try and say yes to everything that comes up.
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Jackrabbit is available now
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